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  • God’s Pain; the Gun Control Debate; a Society without God?

    December 17, 2012 | 14 Comments

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    Dr. Brown offers insights on God’s pain and the Newtown massacre, and then opens the phones to discuss the debate over gun control and the responses to Mike Huckabee’s comments that we have escorted God out of our society and so we can’t blame Him for these events. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at  (866) 348 7884  with your questions and comments.

    Some Relevant Links to Today’s Show: TownHall.com, CharismaNews.com, MessiahsMandate.org, BillMuehlenberg.com

     

    Hour 1:

    Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: The gun control debate should take place and we should examine aspects of our laws but that is not the problem.  That is not the primary reason that we had a massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, the issues are far deeper.

     

    Hour 2:

    Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: While the nation continues to reel in the aftermath of the Newtown tragedy, let us as God’s people lead the way in a national movement back to God!

     

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    Other Resources:

    Thoughts on the Problem of Suffering

    The Tragic Colorado Movie Theater Massacre and the State of Our Nation

    Do Bad Things Happen to “Good” People? (And a time for moral outrage)

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    Comments

    14 Responses to “God’s Pain; the Gun Control Debate; a Society without God?”

    1. jon
      December 17th, 2012 @ 11:37 am

      this is not a comment as to which side of the gun debate anyone is on- only a comment that i found interesting the fact the mother of the shooter had a stock of weapons to protect from a society in chaos. interestingly that idea, and that stock of weapon’s has directly hit our society and the mother directly. (the mother would have never have imagined, or wanted her son to turn her weapon’s on the most innocent.

      ideas and words mean something- and we must be careful in what we put our faith in ie (a stock of weapon’s) our trust comes from the most high, and this country was well established before we were even born. this country will stand only if it is in God’s will to stand and prosper.

    2. Eric
      December 17th, 2012 @ 2:09 pm

      “Darrell Scott’s address to the U.S. Congress

      DARRELL SCOTT

      (Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine School shootings in Littleton, Colorado left a U.S. Congressional Committee dumbfounded with his address. Here is an edited version of what Darrell Scott said.)

      “Since the dawn of creation, there has been a portion of both good and evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of violence and the seeds of loving. “The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of her heroic teacher and the other 11 children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers. “One of the first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother, Abel, out in the fields. The villain was the not the club Cain used. The true killer was Cain and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain’s heart.

      “In the days following the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the National Rifle Association.

      “I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA, because I do not believe they are responsible for my daughter’s death.

      “I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy — it was a spiritual event which should force us to look for where the real blame lies.

      “Much of the blame lies here in this room, (the U.S. Congress.) Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves.

      “I wrote a poem expressing my own feelings.

      “Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
      “Your words are empty air.
      “You’ve stripped away our heritage,
      “You’ve outlawed simple prayer.
      “Now, gunshots fill our classrooms,
      “And precious children die.
      “You seek for answers everywhere,
      “Then ask the question ‘why?’
      “You regulate restrictive laws,
      “Through legislative creed.
      “And yet you fail to understand,
      “That God is what we need.”

      “We all consist of three parts — body, soul and spirit. When we fail to acknowledge that third part of our make-up, we create a void which allows evil, prejudice and hatred to rush in and cause havoc.

      “Spiritual influences were present in our educational systems for most of American history. Many major colleges began as theological seminaries. These are historical facts.

      “What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God and, in so doing, we have opened the doors to hatred and violence. And, when something as terrible as Columbine occurs, politicians immediately look for a scapegoat like the NRA; they immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws and continue to erode our personal and private liberties.

      “We do not need more restrictive laws. (The shooters), Eric and Dylan, would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No gun law will stop someone who spends time planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.

      “The young people of our nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening taking place. It will not be squelched.

      “We do not need more religion. We do not need more gaudy television evangelists spewing our verbal religious garbage. We do not need more million-dollar church buildings being constructed while people’s basic needs are being ignored.

      Darren Scott, concluded his speech to a quiet, dumbfounded U.S. Congressional committee, this way:

      “As my son, Craig, lay under that classroom table in that school library and saw his friends murdered before his very eyes — he did not hesitate to pray.

      “I defy any law or any politician to deny him that right.” ”

      Source: http://catholiceducation.org/articles/civilization/cc0053.html

    3. Rafael
      December 17th, 2012 @ 3:49 pm

      Retired Officer,
      The killing of adults and children at Sandy school elementary in Newton, Conn. has sparked anger and sorrow. Who cannot feel the pain and anguish of not being there to help these innocent life that were taken in a moment.
      There are other who don’t feel the resentment or will feel it for a moment and within a couple of weeks people will forget again. It is not that they are evil but are sensitized by the nature of the life they live and media involvement.
      A quick reaction to when a tragedy of this magnitude happens is to hard press the congress, politician even the president to a firearm ban/Gun control or more strict laws. It is all in good attention but regardless of the gun control there is always the underground trade market and let us face the fact those who receive these arms are those with criminal intentions and those without. It is unseeingly possible to stop such eradicate behavior by enforcing more control on an ailment that has to do with behavior.
      Here we are dealing with a bigger issue a moral issue what is leading people to these course of action…. One does not need to look far when we look at some of these shootings of innocent victims such as Columbia high school and the cinema shooting. The persons who committed those acts were dressed as characters of movies(matrix, bane).
      Is the blame on violent movie makers, Music, Television show and video games responsible for these course of action. To a small extend they are, but the full blame would be on us that view these materials and let are children view and play them also.
      Do we not believe that if we view or let other view or hear certain immoral materials that a person start believing or can compare them self as a character or want to be as a certain character in view.
      The old phrase if you throw a pebble in a pond would it not affect the rest of the pond. The same with media in our mind an immoral image or scene of fighting, adultery, killing ,shooting how you must look etc. can start a ripple in our mind and grow within us without noticing until it is too late.
      Immoral media and ourselves is to blame on the psychological effects that takes place within our lives and those around us. We must take back the moral foundation that was set forth 2000 years ago and desensitized ourselves and our families and friends from wrong to what is right to consume in our mind. It will not be a quick fix but it is a start within ourselves and society…
      Be the light in this nation.

    4. S. Johnson
      December 17th, 2012 @ 5:06 pm

      Something that was missed in the Bart Erman’s complaint about evil, but was clearly seen by C.S. Lewis is that one cannot indict God for the evil in the world without believing that objective evil really exists (else one is indicting God for just what one personally dislikes). But if there is objective evil, then there must be a standard by which it can be measured.

      As C.S. Lewis put it: “My argument was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line… of course I could have given up my idea of justice saying that it was nothing but an idea of my own. But if I did then my argument against God( based on evil) collapsed.”

      Norman Geisler puts it this way God made evil possible but man made evil actual. One cannot have a world of love without free will. Forced love is a contradiction.

    5. Ray
      December 17th, 2012 @ 8:45 pm

      The Newtown massacre was another evil event in this warm and wonderful, cold, cruel world.

    6. Greg
      December 18th, 2012 @ 10:31 am

      My response is to a comment made by “jon”: I agree with what you say, that our nation will stand or fall or prosper according to Gods will, but our nation wasn’t set free from Britain through prayer but with the use of a gun. Violence comes and if we as a people are not willing to defend our selves or our children from the violence then we will be killed by it. Gun laws will not make it harder for criminals to get guns, it will make it harder for law abiding citizens to defend them selves… remember, no guns are allowed at a school .. this didn’t deter the shooter, but more evidently was an invitation.

    7. Anthea
      December 18th, 2012 @ 4:32 pm

      The deaths in Newton, and the 1000 deaths as a result of the typhoon in the Philippines are both part of the same story. This world is broken and sin-sick.(Part of that sin-sickness was how the media mostly ignored the typhoon…)

      It is unfair to point fingers at the US — “Look at them and all their gun crime! Ooh, glad we’re not like THEM!” I have heard and read many comments in that vein whenever there is a shocking gun crime in America. My own country has other problems — social inequality, lack of respect for the old, abortion, growing atheism and love of the occult …

      Regarding gun control, I have no idea whether or not it will happen, but I agree with Dr Brown that it’s not the issue. In Canada hunting and shooting are popular and people have guns a-plenty, but there is less gun crime. In Switzerland the law states that you MUST have a gun — can you remember reading about shootings in a Swiss school?

      Darrell Scott’s speech was spot on. I feel so sorry for all the teachers who must regularly practise hiding in the cupboard from a gunman, whilst prayer and Scripture are banned.

      BTW, is it permissible in a state (public) school for a Christian club to meet at lunchtime? Can pupils meet for prayer, Bible games and teaching in their own time?

    8. Eliyahu Moshiach
      December 18th, 2012 @ 4:36 pm

      Why was the father of the batman massacre and the father of the Sandy Hook massacre both scheduled to be witnesses against the London banks in a trillion dollar scandal?

      Why was the words “Sandy Hook” written down on a map on the latest movie, “The Dark Knight”?

      Why did the police at Sandy Knight report to eye witnessing three persons, one dead in the school, one caught outside the school and one that got away in the woods?

      Why is the man arrested for the batman murders, personally volunteered to work as a experient for the CIA Mind Control experiments including hipnosis etc.?

    9. Eliyahu Moshiach
      December 18th, 2012 @ 5:02 pm

      Why was there three days before the batman murders in a movie theator, a Lil Wayne music video was released showing 12 human skelotons sitting in a movie theator, and why was there three days later 12 real human beings murdered in a movie theator?

    10. Ray
      December 23rd, 2012 @ 8:09 am

      As far as I know, it is a constitutionaly protected right for students in a public school to meet to read a Bible, pray, or worship during their own free time as long as such time and place are given to them by the school for such purposes, but there are many who do not view it that way.

      I don’t believe the young man who did the killing was active in a school movement to relieve oppression of fellow classmates through ministry of reconciliation, through walking through matters together, talking things out, seeking not to judge (condemn) others, but rather to discern whether or not certain actions taken are right or not, and then extending mercy and compassion toward any wrong doer, extending mercy and truth together, one toward another without partiality or hypocrisy.

      I just don’t think the young man was raised that way in high school. If he was, I believe he would have had another perspective on life that may have stuck with him, perhaps for eternity.

      “Blessed are the peacemakers” Jesus said.

    11. Van
      April 9th, 2014 @ 12:56 pm

      The Bible says to turn the other cheek. The Christian says, “No way, come near me and I’ll blow your head off with my automatic weapon.” Quite a difference eh?

    12. Sheila
      April 9th, 2014 @ 2:57 pm

      Why would you quote someone who never existed? (in your opinion) I think you have really conflicted feelings.

      I appreciate the interpretation I read somewhere that what Jesus was alluding to was for us to refuse to be humiliated, as being backhanded by someone was them showing their superiority over you. By offering them your other cheek as well you would need to raise your head and look at them. That very act says you’re not accepting their assessment of you but neither are you stooping to their level by retaliating.

      When will you leave off making such highly generalized statements? Christians and automatic weapons? I get the feeling that you can’t be much older than 21.

    13. Van
      April 9th, 2014 @ 3:50 pm

      “Why would you quote someone who never existed? (in your opinion) I think you have really conflicted feelings.”

      Unlike you and the rest of the Bible believers, I do not let my feelings guide my thinking. Data and evidence, you know those things you could not produce to back up your claims about Jesus, guide my thinking.

    14. Sheila
      April 9th, 2014 @ 4:12 pm

      I gave you an entire book full of evidence, Van. It would serve you well to read it. Do you have credentials equal to those scholars who disagree with you? Those who have made New Testament studies their life’s work? Lay them on the table and let’s look at them.

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