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  • A Christian Leader Against Voting for Romney and More from Jerusalem

    October 10, 2012 | 77 Comments

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    Dr. Brown interviews controversial internet evangelist Bob Enyart who claims that no true Christian can vote for Romney and then shares more perspectives live from Israel. Listen live here 2-4 pm EST, and call into the show at  (866) 348 7884  with your questions and comments.

     

    Hour 1:

    Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: I have not put my trust in the Democratic Party and I have not put my trust in the Republican Party, nor have I put it in a particular candidate. The ultimate trust is in Jesus and the Church must wake up if America is to be changed.

     

    Hour 2:

    Dr. Brown’s Bottom Line: During this volatile election season let us more than ever seek the face of God and rather than following the poles day and night let us search our own hearts and say, “Am I ablaze? Am I on fire? How does God look at me?”

     

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    Other Resources:

    Can We Separate Morality from Politics and Race?

    Black Christian Leaders Who Say They Cannot Vote for President Obama

    A Debate with Prof. Doug Groothius on Whether Christians Can Vote for Romney and Dr. Brown’s Thoughts on “Reach Out and Resist”

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    Comments

    77 Responses to “A Christian Leader Against Voting for Romney and More from Jerusalem”

    1. Eliyahu Moshiach
      October 10th, 2012 @ 1:07 pm

      lol, this is funny how politics gets these type of radio shows, if a believer can not vote for either party because he does not want to offend someone somewhere who thinks that Christians are sinning somehow for voting for one of two sinners to be the face and leading voice of the USA, then this sounds like a trap of condemnation, no matter who one prefers there will be an opposition saying sin is involved. Is it better to not get involved to be blameless from finger pointers? My advice, what ever you do, do it all for the glory of God, this is a minor detail, all the major details let us unite and be one and fix the the broken body of Christ scattered throughout all the denominations, both historical and new and non denominational, and my last advice, is that whatever anyone does, vote for a, vote for b, or vote for z or not vote any, do it all for the glory of God out of your utmost love for God, and do not let the accusers (devils/demons) be successful in putting a guilty conscience on your conscience, don’t fall for that trap. Please also, my last advice, if your brother or sister in the Lord votes a and you vote b, or none, or they vote none, then just give everyone grace, the spirit of grace, let this not be occasion for disunity and guilty consciences, if you can not vote for anyone that is pro choice, then don’t, if you can not vote for anyone that is Mormon, then don’t. Don’t allow USA politics to divide an already divided body of Christ even more, peace! Blessings! to all of you in the mighty grace of the King of Kings, our True President anyways, lol, please don’t get offended with these words of mine, have grace with me too.

    2. Dr Michael L Brown
      October 10th, 2012 @ 1:19 pm

      To be clear, my guest, Bob Enyart is opposed to Romney because of his pro-abortion, pro-gay positions in the past, not because of his Mormonism.

    3. Mark
      October 10th, 2012 @ 2:36 pm

      Not having listened to the show yet, podcast listener, I can say this. Obama is a Muslim helping the Muslim Brotherhood to come to power in Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, and Syria. If Obama wins the Muslims in Egypt will be emboldened to persecute and murder the Christian community that goes back to the days of the Apostles. A Romney win means Israel has a friend in the White House and no more Muslims there. To get Muslims out of the White House is reason enough to ingore the other stuff and vote Romney.

    4. Mark
      October 10th, 2012 @ 2:38 pm

      Just to be clear there are other Muslims in high positions in the Obama White House besides Obama himself.

    5. Wauthena Neely
      October 10th, 2012 @ 4:30 pm

      Since my earlier e-mail to you I did some digging on my own. It seems Bob Enyart is an “Open Theist”. I am sure you know that he doesn’t believe that God knows the future because the future doesn’t exist yet. Wow, this is a bit contradictory to what Gods Word teaches. His practices are like those of Rev Fred Phelps, who pickets the funerals of fallen soldiers and homosexuals. While pro-life and anti-homosexual they are not necessarily Christian. To give this man a platform us just unthinkable! He is a hatemonger with an ends justify the means philosophy and he and those like him hate America. For twelve years, as the Director of a Crisis Pregnancy Center, I battled against their type of Christianity. I hope this broadcast, with his adamant declaration that Romney is pro choice and pro homosexual, is not taken seriously by undecided listeners.

    6. Jonathan
      October 10th, 2012 @ 6:37 pm

      Dr. Brown and listeners, I would encourage you to go to http://www.aboutmittromney.com/abortion.htm and compare what is found there with what is found on the website today’s guest listed http://prolifeprofiles.com/mitt-romney-abortion

      You can judge for yourselves then. After comparing information, I tend to think that the second website may have some “facts” that may technically be correct but are actually misleading. Please look at all of the information and judge for yourselves.

      I notice that the prolifeprofiles website lists Mitt Romney in the same tier as they list Sarah Palin and Ron Paul. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I heard the guest say on the show that Palin was in league with Planned Parenthood. That in and of itself should be revealing.

    7. Nancy Hobday
      October 10th, 2012 @ 7:52 pm

      We have to be united in the business of the Lord. Being for shedding innocent blood is definitely against the Bible from Abel to the beheaded Christians in the Revelation. I know Mitt has flip flopped in the past regarding this issue and I am not sure he is not full of baloney now, but at least he SAYS he will work to stop abortion. I think the best approach is to vote for him based on possibly Isaiah 45 and give him a life honoring congress and HOLD HIS FEET TO THE FIRE UNTIL HE KEEPS HIS PROMISES! Church, speak for those who have no voice (Prov. 31)If Obama wins we should pray that the Lord will open his eyes and those of the Congress! At the same time we should continue to live right and spread the Gospel. I think this is right. What do you think?

    8. Carol
      October 10th, 2012 @ 8:16 pm

      I think today’s program guest only confused your listeners. Saying that Obama is the best of the two is, in a way, just supporting another Democrat fishing for votes. Come on. I lost a lot of respect for your show today and won’t tune in going forward. I am disappointed that you would try to pull the wool over our eyes with your Democratic views. Dr. Brown, until today, I had a lot of respect for you, but your choice of friends speaks volumns to me and I am no longer a fan. Obama is doing his best to destroy Christianity and YOU are supporting it.

    9. Kevin Evans
      October 10th, 2012 @ 8:20 pm

      I listened to portions of the show with Enyart. I totally agree with his views on Romney. I cannot bring myself to vote with a liberal wolf in sheep clothing. Oh, by the way Dr. Brown I make it a point to listen to you every week day here in The Bahamas. Your programs are very informative and Spirit-filled. Thank you and keep it up.

    10. Brian
      October 10th, 2012 @ 8:57 pm

      Brother Mike,

      I really appreciated your show today, as it brought to light the truth that many have not fully known or have denied. The idea that the Republican party, and even more so Mitt Romney, is G-d’s choice, or is “the better of two evils” is a path leading to deception altogether.

      It is quite evident that no Christian can vote for Romney. Thank you again for being open and allowing the truth to be heard regarding both candidates and both parties.

      Shalom

    11. Jonathan
      October 10th, 2012 @ 10:23 pm

      @ Nancy – i appreciate what you said, and i am totally in agreement with your position. if Romney gets in, great; we will pray for him. As for Obama, we pray for him also that the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ would be granted him by the Father. At the beginning of time and at the end of every day, Christ is seated in the heavenly places and is raised far above all principalities, powers, might and dominion and every name that is named (Ephesians 1), so all influences in this world are effected by Him. He can pull Obama over to His side in an instant; “my sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.” (John 10)

      Practically speaking, though – for we must live within the constraints of the reality that God has revealed to us at the given moment – we have to vote in such a way as to A) defend the lives of those whose very disposition prohibits them from representing themselves; i.e., abortion, and B) vote in such a way that is proactive of our personal responsibility to defend the Constitution of the United States.

      @ Brian – Just as Dr. Brown discussed on the program with the Professor from Colorado, we are not voting for a pastor or other religious official. We are doing our due diligence and responsibility to see that the political leaders we install to service will defend the Constitution of the United States. It’s all about the constitution, for that is the consummation of the ideals of our great nation. As a citizen of Christ’s kingdom, obey His commandments. Repent and believe and bear fruit unto righteousness. As a citizen of America, uphold our founder’s principles and the constitution of this great REPUBLIC.

    12. Jonathan
      October 10th, 2012 @ 10:28 pm

      BTW, i just realized that my name is already taken! the comment above @ 10:23PM was written by me, Jonathan Tack, and not the same Jonathan who posted at 6:37. Just needed to clear that up.

    13. John
      October 11th, 2012 @ 1:36 am

      If mitt romney never taxpayer funded abortion thus killing all those babies but instead killed just one baby and that baby was yours, would you still cast your vote for him?

    14. Mark
      October 11th, 2012 @ 2:13 am

      Shame on all of you. The lives of Egyptian Christians that depend upon a Romney win mean nothing to you.

      I don’t doubt that this “don’t vote for Romney movement” was started by supporters of Obama. No matter what excuse you give, not voting for Romney is a vote for Obama and worldwide Islam.

    15. Jonathan
      October 11th, 2012 @ 3:30 am

      Brian, don’t presume to comment about truth being denied and a path leading to deception until you answer this post from a previous thread found here:http://www.lineoffireradio.com/2012/09/19/a-debate-with-prof-doug-groothius-on-whether-christians-can-vote-for-romney-and-dr-browns-thoughts-on-reach-out-and-resist/ which states:

      “September 24th, 2012 @ 8:17 pm
      Brian, I had previously posted, “You told me that you could vote for a person who worked to make it legal to kill toddlers without blood being on your hands. Then you turned around and told Dr. Brown that you could not vote to re-elect George W Bush because blood would then be on your hands because of the war in Iraq.
      How in the world are you being consistently honest in your beliefs between those two positions?”
      It is very telling that it remains unanswered and ignored.”

      That post remains unanswered to this day. Would you care to answer it, Brian?

    16. Joseph D
      October 11th, 2012 @ 4:47 am

      I see that Mr Bob Enyart is using irrelevant facts to mislead.
      This election is not about one candidate such as Romney or Obama. It is about ideology and the party platform. IT is a cultural war between two diametrically opposed sides. Not voting for either side is self defeating to the christian. When He implies that Republicans are more pro abortion and that the DNC is the lesser of two evils, he is not right with his analysis. You judge a party by its platform and objectives and overall track records and not isolated flaws like a supreme court appointee who reneges or deflects from what is expected of him. This is true to both parties.
      George W Bush stood with the Church on social on social and moral issues more than Clinton and any Democratic President. He vetoed the embryo stem cell research, supported the abstinence program, proposed the Federal ammendment of the constitution to protect traditional marriage, appointed judges who banned partial abortion and much more while on the other hand the Democrats opposed all. Republicans have been steadfast on the right side of moral issues ever since the party was formed. They were, and still are commendably anti slavery, anti-segregation, anti Jim crow, anti kkk, anti abortion, anti gay marriage, and pro civil rights. (They voted in majorty to passs all the Black civil right bills) whiles the Democrats were on the opposing side. Even the 1964 -65 civil right bill was least supported by Democrats. Today the Republicans have doubled down on their standon God’s side on the issues. The religion of Romney is irrelevant here because God uses even the heathen to do His will. Being named a Christian does not mean one will do right. All the Israeli Kings (Northern Kingdom) were evil kings( did evil) but God used outsiders like Cyrus, Ahasuerus, Nebuchadnezzar, etc to do his work. Romney can not back down on his promise to be pro life , pro family,pro Israel, Pro God, proreligious freedom etc because the Tea Party is a powerful watch dog in the party. It is worthwhile to appreciate that in the GOP there is internal critique which forces the party and its delegates to steer right to conservative values or be voted out of office. With the DEmocrats, the internal critique is to force them to the Liberal side.
      Here is my coclusion: The Democrats are Liberals seeking liberty by trying to liberate themselves AWAY FROM the Laws of God and the Constitution. and the Repulicans are conservatives seeking freedom by trying to liberate themselves WITH the lLaws of God and the Constitution. None is perfect but their agenda is clear.

    17. Dr Michael L Brown
      October 11th, 2012 @ 5:09 am

      Jonathan, thanks for the post and the links!

    18. Brian
      October 11th, 2012 @ 8:14 am

      Jonathan,

      A few points…

      My dialogue was with Dr. Brown regarding my reasoning for not voting for President Bush the second term; hence, I “owe” you nothing on that matter at all.

      Second, where does your line of justification fall, as I present to you your own question regarding Mr. Romney, seeing that this is exactly what he has done:

      Do you believe it would be a sin and that you would have blood on your hands to vote for someone who worked to make it legal to kill toddlers? 2. If your answer to number one is “yes” then how can it not be sin and you not have blood on your hands if you vote for someone who champions the “right” to butcher unborn babies by the millions every year?

      On the previous posting that you cited, I asked you:

      “Do you believe that racism is a sin, and that anyone who endorses a man or his party, with the suppression of minorities, the poor and elderly is completely and totally unacceptable and most assuredly sin for anyone, especially a Christian?”
      I also posted two videos that demonstrated Rick Santorum’s racist comments. Your only reply was that racism is wrong. What a soft stance on what G-d identifies as “sin.”

      You also stated that you agree with the new voter ID laws. 33 states had instituted these laws, all led by the Republican party. Research revealed that voter fraud evidence amounted to 1 in 15 million (yes, 1 in 15 million), hardly justification to do so. Two examples of voter suppression are Pennsylvania and Wisconsin which had zero documented cases in their history. A Republican council member in the state of Pennsylvania openly stated that these voter laws will help Romney win the election. And most telling is the fact that no picture ID was held mandatory to vote in the Republican primaries.

      Notwithstanding, Ezekiel 16:49 clearly reveals G-d’s hatred for this kind of sin which does not strength the hand of the poor and needy. This is exactly what this modern day Jim Crow law of voter suppression endorses.

      Tell me, with this data before you, how can you support such a law in the sight of G-d?

    19. David Roberts
      October 11th, 2012 @ 9:06 am

      @Dr. Brown,

      Have you read the news about Obama’s Shahada Muslim ring?

      http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/obamas-ring-there-is-no-god-but-allah/

      It’s a must read! He didn’t even have the decency to get a distinct ring for the significance of his love for his wife. He just got married with the Muslim ring he’d been wearing for years! How many ex-Muslims now turned Christian wear there is no god but Allah and Mohammed on their hand?

    20. Richard Pompa
      October 11th, 2012 @ 10:23 am

      Was so looking forward to hearing the podcast from yesterday’s pgm 10/10. Still not able to click on. There is no icon (arrow) for me to click on underneath the intro for me to listen? Wanted to hear ur interwiew w guest regarding Romney. God bls u mightily tday in ur radio pgm n ur adventures in Jerusalem! From Richard in Phoenix, Az.

    21. Bill Fawcett
      October 11th, 2012 @ 11:25 am

      Brian, are you serious?

      “It is quite evident that no Christian can vote for Romney.”

      I am a blood-bought Christian. I intend on voting for Romney. Please explain- do you think:

      1. I will lose my salvation when I pull the lever for Romney.

      or

      2. My conversion was false.

      If you cannot, or will not answer this question than everything you say is to be dismissed.

      Let’s go.

    22. Brian
      October 11th, 2012 @ 1:23 pm

      Bill,

      I know you or the state of your conversion at all. That is between you and G-d alone.

      Mitt Romney has governed as one who has advocated abortion rights. Obama care is Romney care. Additionally, He is pro gay, two qualifying factors that some Christians have used to advocate that no Christian can vote for President Obama. It is the exact same standard applied.

    23. Brian
      October 11th, 2012 @ 1:24 pm

      Bill, (Revision)

      I “don’t” know you…

    24. Jonathan S
      October 11th, 2012 @ 2:17 pm

      Brian, I realize you were talking about your reason for not voting to re-elect Bush when you said, “I did not want that innocent blood on my hands.” Yet I find that statement hypocritical when you had already said it would not be a sin and that you would not have blood on your hands to vote for someone who worked to make it legal to kill toddlers. You may not consider that you owe me an answer to that apparent hypocrisy. I believe it is because you don’t have an answer.

      So I will answer the question that you turned back toward me while refusing to answer it yourself. My answer to the first question is a definite and unequivocal “YES”. The answer to the second question is also that I would have blood on my hands if I voted for someone who champions the “right” to butcher babies by the millions. Yet Romney no longer champions that “right”. He has stated that he wants to see Roe V Wade overturned. He has picked a pro-life VP (as he promised to do beforehand). He has promised to put the Mexico City policy back in place that Obama rescinded that bans taxpayer money from going to other countries to fund abortion. He has promised to overturn Obamacare which allows for the funding of abortion. He has committed to advocate for and support a Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act to protect unborn children who are capable of feeling pain from abortion. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/269984/my-pro-life-pledge-mitt-romney
      Romney is also endorsed by almost all pro-life groups and leaders. Meanwhile, Obama is endorsed by radical pro-abortion organizations. So does that answer your question?

      As for racism, I already told you: “Racism is a belief that is extremely wrong, but is there any proof that Santorum or Romney have governed in a racist manner? There is proof that Obama has governed in a way that has helped to kill the unborn.” and “The arguments about racism do not compare. Did you give some proof of how Romney has or would govern in a racist manner? There is much proof we can give that Obama has and will govern in a manner to promote the killing of the unborn.” and again, “How has Romney promoted racism in his governing of Massachusetts and what specific proof do you have that Romney would lead the country in racism as president?”

      I don’t know how that is a soft stance on racism. Could you explain?

      It appears you are trying to equate voter id laws to racism. That is quite a fanciful judgment.

      If voter id laws are racist, do you also believe that it is racist to require a photo id in able to drive or to buy wine?

      Here is what I have already previously told you about voter id laws:

      “I support voter ID laws not for some nefarious purpose as you would like to imply. I support them because the integrity of the vote is worth preserving. ID’s are required for a number of different activities and there is no cry of racism when it is applied to those activities. Why is it all the sudden referred to as racism when it is required to vote?
      Here is a good Washington Times article on the subject http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/13/voter-id-laws-preserve-democracy/?page=all
      So instead of throwing around baseless attacks on Romney’s thoughts and beliefs concerning his attitudes on race and the poor and the elderly, how about some objective facts?”

      Here are a few more links regarding voter fraud:

      http://www.truethevote.org/news/did-you-know-there-are-voter-fraud-convictions-and-prosecutions-in-46-states (Since you mentioned Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, you can note they are among the states listed at this link.)

      http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/19/53000-dead-voters-in-florida-millions-nationwide

      http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-09-14/news/bs-md-wendy-rosen-withdraws-20120910_1_general-election-voter-fraud-vote-on-local-issues

      You can furthermore read about the bi-partisan proposal for a uniform voter photo ID by the Bipartisan Commission on Federal Election Reform in 2005 that was led by former President Jimmy Carter and with former Secretary of State James A. Baker III. Of the 21 members of their commission, only three dissented from this proposal. You can read about that here: http://www.humanevents.com/2011/11/16/jimmy-carter-an-ally-on-the-left-in-voter-id-crusade/

      So with this data before me, I believe that sufficiently answers how I could support the idea of a voter ID being required to vote. I don’t hear anyone saying it is racist to require photo ID to drive a car or purchase wine. Why is that?

      So I believe I have answered your questions. Are you now willing to answer mine?

    25. Jonathan
      October 11th, 2012 @ 2:22 pm

      Posted by Jonathan Stevenson: Brian, I realize you were talking about your reason for not voting to re-elect Bush when you said, “I did not want that innocent blood on my hands.” Yet I find that statement hypocritical when you had already said it would not be a sin and that you would not have blood on your hands to vote for someone who worked to make it legal to kill toddlers. You may not consider that you owe me an answer to that apparent hypocrisy. I believe it is because you don’t have an answer.

      So I will answer the question that you turned back toward me while refusing to answer it yourself. My answer to the first question is a definite and unequivocal “YES”. The answer to the second question is also that I would have blood on my hands if I voted for someone who champions the “right” to butcher babies by the millions. Yet Romney no longer champions that “right”. While he once supported abortion, he has now indicated that he has changed his mind. He has stated that he wants to see Roe V Wade overturned. He has picked a pro-life VP (as he promised to do beforehand). He has promised to put the Mexico City policy back in place that Obama rescinded that bans taxpayer money from going to other countries to fund abortion. He has promised to overturn Obamacare which allows for the funding of abortion. He has committed to advocate for and support a Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act to protect unborn children who are capable of feeling pain from abortion.
      http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/269984/my-pro-life-pledge-mitt-romney

      Romney is also endorsed by almost all pro-life groups and leaders. Meanwhile, Obama is endorsed by radical pro-abortion organizations. So does that answer your question?

      As for racism, I already told you: “Racism is a belief that is extremely wrong, but is there any proof that Santorum or Romney have governed in a racist manner? There is proof that Obama has governed in a way that has helped to kill the unborn.” and “The arguments about racism do not compare. Did you give some proof of how Romney has or would govern in a racist manner? There is much proof we can give that Obama has and will govern in a manner to promote the killing of the unborn.” and again, “How has Romney promoted racism in his governing of Massachusetts and what specific proof do you have that Romney would lead the country in racism as president?”

      I don’t know how that is a soft stance on racism. Could you explain?

      It appears you are trying to equate voter id laws to racism. That is quite a fanciful judgment.
      If voter id laws are racist, do you also believe that it is racist to require a photo id in able to drive or to buy wine?

      Here is what I have already previously told you about voter id laws:

      “I support voter ID laws not for some nefarious purpose as you would like to imply. I support them because the integrity of the vote is worth preserving. ID’s are required for a number of different activities and there is no cry of racism when it is applied to those activities. Why is it all the sudden referred to as racism when it is required to vote?
      Here is a good Washington Times article on the subject http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/13/voter-id-laws-preserve-democracy/?page=all
      So instead of throwing around baseless attacks on Romney’s thoughts and beliefs concerning his attitudes on race and the poor and the elderly, how about some objective facts?”

      Here are a few more links regarding voter fraud:
      http://www.truethevote.org/news/did-you-know-there-are-voter-fraud-convictions-and-prosecutions-in-46-states (Since you mentioned Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, you can note they are among the states listed at this link.)

      http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/19/53000-dead-voters-in-florida-millions-nationwide

      http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-09-14/news/bs-md-wendy-rosen-withdraws-20120910_1_general-election-voter-fraud-vote-on-local-issues

      You can furthermore read about the bi-partisan proposal for a uniform voter photo ID by the Bipartisan Commission on Federal Election Reform in 2005 that was led by former President Jimmy Carter and with former Secretary of State James A. Baker III. Of the 21 members of their commission, only three dissented from this proposal. You can read about that here:

      http://www.humanevents.com/2011/11/16/jimmy-carter-an-ally-on-the-left-in-voter-id-crusade/

      So with this data before me, I believe that sufficiently answers how I could support the idea of a voter ID being required to vote. I don’t hear anyone saying it is racist to require photo ID to drive a car or purchase wine. Why is that?
      So I believe I have answered your questions. Are you now willing to answer mine?

    26. Bob Enyart
      October 11th, 2012 @ 2:25 pm

      Wauthena Neely, thank you for your concern. If you listen much to Dr. Brown, you’ll know that it is unwise to believe unsubstantiated “hate-monger” type accusations against Christians. I’d like to ask you to consider retracting your claim about me:

      “[Bob's] practices are like those of Rev Fred Phelps, who pickets the funerals of fallen soldiers and homosexuals.” -WN

      Wauthena, I have had the honor of praying with many homosexuals, and leading some to the Lord, even some who trusted Christ who then made public testimonies to their conversion. And I despise Phelps tactics and have always openly condemned them. I surmise that the Phelps clan has never led a homosexual to the Lord, as I conclude from their behavior and having critically interviewed them. (Our church has gone to them, tried to assess what is wrong, and we believe that aside from doctrinal issues, there is also mental illness involved; and also, though Phelps’ theology might be similar to yours –it’s diametrically opposite of mine– regardless, that would not justify anyone smearing you with the same brush.)

      I realize that you made multiple criticisms of me, but could you consider retracting this one, your comparing us to Phelps?

      Thanks for your consideration.

      -Pastor Bob Enyart
      Denver Bible Church

    27. Jonathan
      October 11th, 2012 @ 2:32 pm

      Posted by Jonathan Stevenson

      Brian,

      You can’t always judge what a person believes today by what they have done in the past. Thank God that many of us are not the same as we were in the past!

      I see a BIG difference when looking at Romney vs Obama. Romney has done and believed a lot of the things that Obama is doing and believing now. But Romney has changed his position and Obama has not.

      I have shown in my last post, the positions Romney is now taking on abortion. I will include this link to show the position Romney is taking on gay marriage. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57431100-503544/romney-affirms-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage/

      You can have problems with Romney’s past if you like. But don’t act like Romney is proclaiming the same positions now.

      Now please inform us what positions Obama is currently taking on the issues of abortion and gay marriage, if you would?

    28. Jonathan
      October 11th, 2012 @ 2:45 pm

      I believe that accusing someone of being racist because they want a photo id to be required to vote is about as outlandish as Roseanne Barr’s latest attempt to say that “Romney is pro rape” because he opposes abortion.

      http://www.lifenews.com/2012/10/11/roseanne-barr-romney-is-pro-rape-because-he-opposes-abortion/

      I appeal to Brian to either list a specific racist action or quote from Romney or get off the outlandish accusations of racism!

    29. Jonathan
      October 11th, 2012 @ 3:10 pm

      OK, one more link. Here is a link to some recent polls.

      http://www.pollingreport.com/politics.htm

      The fourth one down is a CBS News/New York Times Poll that indicates that 70% of Americans support a photo ID requirement to vote. Are you going to call 70% of Americans racist, Brian? Do you believe that is the case? You were willing to call Romney racist because of wanting photo id law, so you are also calling 70% of Americans racist, correct?

    30. Tom Kennedy
      October 11th, 2012 @ 3:52 pm

      Obama is a Left wing, he is our to destroy the American economy.Obama is a Hard cord Muslim.That is way he refuses to come against any Muslim Nation,Obama Hates Israel.He Hates Unborn Babies,

      This so call Christian is a Master of desceit,
      He fasified Want Roomey did.Roomey did not approve Of Gays Marrige, The Mass Court did.
      Vote for Roomey, He a Human being, He is not perfect.His views line up with the WORD OF GOD

    31. Brian
      October 11th, 2012 @ 4:41 pm

      Jonathan,

      Your continual ranting actually leads nowhere with me, this is one of the reasons why I tuned you out on the last thread. For you to seriously expect me to visit all of your links is a bit ridiculous. If you are going to quote me regarding what I said about George Bush, please do so in its context, because your single line posting is grossly misleading. I said…

      “… In the same vein of thought, you voted for George Bush for his second term after it was discovered that we went into Iraq on false pretenses. I did not vote for him the second time for this very reason, thus I could not agree to continue an unjust war where many innocent people were murdered, not to mention 4,000 of our American soldiers. I did not want that innocent blood on my hands. Are all those who voted for him to continue the war destined to burn in the eternal fires of hell beside the Obama voters?….”

      Can you at grasp the context?

      I did not vote for the former president for a second term because I felt that the war was unjust; hence, the question that followed. Second, I also responded to your question with…

      ” Your question is flawed because this is not the “only” issue at stake in this election. Your narrow view regarding this one issue is not what this whole election is about for every American who will vote. If this is your single conviction that will determine who you will vote for, then I can respect that, but to believe that this is the only issue is shortsighted in your thinking.”

      If you don’t like my answers – sorry!

      You said, As for racism, I already told you: “Racism is a belief that is extremely wrong, but is there any proof that Santorum or Romney have governed in a racist manner?”

      Why do you struggle so much to call it sin, something that G-d despises?

      I don’t need to demonstrate where either of these two men governed in a racist manner. Rick Santorum is a Republican leader and was a top candidate, that you voted for, who was running for the presidency. I supplied the video for your viewing of which he called Barak Obama a “Government Nig…” and then caught his words and changed his sentence. I also supplied you a video of which the same man, that you voted for, said:

      “I don’t want to make black people’s lives better by giving them somebody else’s money.”

      This was part of his presidential campaign rally. Why would a Christian endorse such a man with those words spewing out of his mouth? Would you agree that those are racist comments?

      Again, what I said regarding Mitt Romney, and what I still stand on is as follows…

      ” The theology of Mitt Romney has a broad history of racial suppression, something that he has refused to acknowledge as sin. Written in their sacred books stand a theology that all black people have been cursed.”

      Regarding voter ID, one of the supreme court judges asked the state, “What is the rush to implement these laws so fast?” Of which there was no justifiable answer. Implement these laws for the next election, I have no problem with that, as there will be plenty of time for all to have it done. Once again, voter fraud evidence amounted to 1 in 15 million. And this has been without the need for a picture ID. Change the law, fine, but what’s the rush? To implement it now will discount millions of Americans from voting, and the overwhelming majority it will affect are the poor, and that is SIN.

      You asked, ” Now please inform us what positions Obama is currently taking on the issues of abortion and gay marriage, if you would?”

      Why? I never told you that I was voting for President Obama, nor do I feel the need to defend any of those positions that I don’t agree with. Secondly, this thread is about Romney not Obama.

      You obviously have missed the entire point. My position from the onset has been that the Republican party is just as corrupt as the Democratic party; hence equal weights and measures must be levied to them both. This is why I thanked Dr. Brown for having Bob Enyart on his show.

    32. Larry
      October 11th, 2012 @ 10:36 pm

      Thank you Dr. Brown for hosting this discussion on Mitt Romney. Mr Enyart brought much to our attention that we Christian must consider. We must never align ourselves with anyone who would support the killing of innocent children and it is clear that Mr Romney with his exceptions does not believe children in the womb are created in the image of God and worthy of protection. May God continue to bless you and your Line of Fire ministry.

    33. Mark Ballentine
      October 11th, 2012 @ 11:39 pm

      How do we turn the country around? Truth. God’s enduring truth. National Right to Life, Christian pro-life leaders, and Christian pastors insist on compromising God’s truth, by telling their followers and church-goers to vote for politicians willing to compromise on God’s enduring commands (including, “Do not kill the innocent”). This country is in moral free-fall, because of the Godless, to be sure. But, more so, because of Christian compromise.

    34. eric
      October 12th, 2012 @ 9:49 am

      Obviously the lies need to be addressed. As an Illinois State Senator, President Obama voted in favor of not allowing any medical treatment for children who survive an abortion. Mr. Enyart claimed this was not true. It is a fact and can be checked. It is also a fact that some medical personnel defied these laws and saved children who survived abortion procedures in Illinois. They are alive and their testimonies are clear! Again this is a fact that can be verified.

      As to the moral difference between Mr. Romney and President Obama. We are voting for a President who will act upon the will of his political party. The anti-GOD Democratic Party is pro-death and pro homosexual marriage. The pro-GOD Republican Party is pro-life and pro-traditional marriage. The person in the White House will veto or sign legislation that conforms to the will of his party. So there is a huge moral difference between what each candidate will do as president, regardless of their past personal actions.

      Another very important point is that the President will appoint judges who will make law for decades. Obama will appoint anti-GOD secular judges, where Romney will appoint judges that honor the 10 Commandments. When Obama was asked about abortion he said that if his daughters ever became “accidentally” pregnant he would want the option of abortion available so their lives would not be destroyed! When is a blessing from GOD ever something that destroys anyone?

      However, regardless of how the election goes, GOD is in control and we in JESUS are already victors.

    35. Elaine Adams
      October 12th, 2012 @ 11:42 am

      Michael, Thank you so much for having Bob Enyart on your program. He certainly had a lot of truth to express
      Many Christians seem to have hardened their hearts to the plight of our precious unborn. They need our voice in defending and protecting them. Their lives are no less valuable then any of ours. An abomination in the eyes of our Lord to have such an attitude.
      I appreciate Bob Enyart’s passion for standing for the unborn. He is exposing the lies that many are buying into. Being a Republican doesn’t
      make someone moral in their value system.
      I heard Paul Ryan last night……….not every human life is precious to him either. Lord have mercy on this country……..how far we have fallen.
      God bless you, Michael. Continue to stand strong……….love you and your ministry. ;o)
      Elaine Adams

    36. Jonathan
      October 12th, 2012 @ 11:47 am

      A key point from last night’s debate that everyone needs to think long and hard about:

      BIDEN: “The court — the next president will get one or two Supreme Court nominees. That’s how close Roe v. Wade is. Just ask yourself, with Robert Bork being the chief adviser on the court for — for Mr. Romney, who do you think he’s likely to appoint? Do you think he’s likely to appoint someone like Scalia or someone else on the court far right that would outlaw (inaudible) — outlaw abortion? I suspect that would happen.

      I guarantee you, that will not happen. We picked two people. We pick people who are open-minded. They’ve been good justices. So keep an eye on the Supreme Court.”

      The Supreme Court justices have LIFETIME APPOINTMENTS! Folks, If we allow Barack Obama to pick two more radical pro-abortion ultra-liberal justices like Sotomayor and Kagan, the Court will be tilted to that radical ideology for YEARS! Is that what you want? I hope not. I appeal to you to think long and hard about that.

      (Brian, I do intend to respond to your post as I get the chance.)

    37. Jonathan
      October 12th, 2012 @ 8:26 pm

      Brian, to respond to your post:

      First off, I think it is rather ironic how you talk to me about quoting you in context, while at the same time telling me that I have a problem with calling racism sin.

      It is really semantics anyway as you will see “wrong” or “wrongdoing” as synonyms for “sin”. But you also don’t quote where I already told you: “I thought I would clarify why it is important that you give proof that Romney has or would govern in a racist manner as opposed to having a racist belief (which I would clarify is also a sin but has not been proved that he holds).”

      So it is ironic you want to chide me about quoting in context.

      But I understand fully the context of your comment about not voting for Bush. And we could get into the war and whether or not it was legitimate. But that is not my point. My point is you said you couldn’t vote for Bush without blood being on your hands but yet you took issue with Dr. Brown saying:

      “While I say no Christian can possibly vote for Mr. Obama to be president…”

      Then in post # 10 above, you say, “It is quite evident that no Christian can vote for Romney.”

      You complain about non-equal weights and measures so why do you believe that statements such as that are equal with your complaint for Dr. Brown saying what he did about Obama?

      You also said about abortion, that it is not the only issue. Yet you seemed to think the war was one issue that could keep you from voting for Bush. Again, that does not seem to be equal weights and measures, does it?

      Now as far as Santorum goes, I already told you I didn’t know about those videos when I voted for him. If he were still running, just as Dr. Brown told you, I agree that I would want to find out if he retracted those statements and if he in fact, had governed in a racist manner as a congressman. However, as I said already, he is not running.

      Now as far as the links I supplied, I don’t EXPECT you to go to all of them if you don’t want to. You asked me questions about how I could support the idea of laws requiring an ID to vote, did you not? I believed I was answering your question. I provided information for you if you cared to understand why I believed the way I do. If you choose not to read the information after you asked the question, that’s your choice. You do as you like. But don’t blame me for answering the question that you asked me.

      Now when I asked you about telling us Obama’s positions on abortion and gay marriage, you said. “Why? I never told you that I was voting for President Obama, nor do I feel the need to defend any of those positions that I don’t agree with. Secondly, this thread is about Romney not Obama.
      You obviously have missed the entire point. My position from the onset has been that the Republican party is just as corrupt as the Democratic party; hence equal weights and measures must be levied to them both. This is why I thanked Dr. Brown for having Bob Enyart on his show.”

      Your right, you never said you were voting for Obama. I never said you were either. You could tell me who you are voting for if you want. I have been up-front about who I was voting for. But that is your decision. I never asked you who you were voting for or tried to say who you were voting for. But you were the one trying to compare Romney and Obama as if they were equal, not me. I am just asking you to back that up. I have shown you Mitt Romney’s current positions. Are you going to say they are the same as Obama’s?

    38. Jonathan
      October 12th, 2012 @ 9:04 pm

      For anyone who would like to see what Matt Barber (an attorney who is VP of Liberty Counsel Action) has to say about the issue of the Supreme Court when it comes to the election, read the following article. I wholeheartedly agree with it: http://www.lifenews.com/2012/06/08/christians-should-vote-for-romney-because-judges-matter/

    39. Dave
      October 13th, 2012 @ 1:54 am

      If you decide to vote then research, seek out the truth and pray about it. If you don’t vote, like me, than that’s that.

      My biggest concern is the level of hope/despair over politics in the christian community. If we truly are a democratic republic than the government will change when it’s people do. Get the heart(people) of this nation to meet the Lord and righteous politics will follow…that is if we are still a nation “for the people, by the people”.

      Or, we could just sit back on our comfortable couches(like I’m doing now) and argue political theory all the while placing blame on corrupt politicians… even though our theories and half truths are fed to us by bias media outlets and people with predisposed positions most often funded by large corporations and their lobbyists who go on to get their guy elected to repeat the cycle all over again!

      My goodness, is it really only me that believes we are already past the point where a futile election will solve our problems?

    40. Dave
      October 13th, 2012 @ 1:59 am

      And let me be very clear, by “righteous politics” I mean protecting the unborn, not another prohibition or any nonsense like that.

    41. David Roberts
      October 13th, 2012 @ 2:09 am

      Obama and Romney are both pro-Abortion, but Obama is more radical with regards to Abortion than Romney.

      To me, the main difference is only one will defend and stand with Israel, the other will do everything in his power to undermine their security.

    42. Jonathan
      October 13th, 2012 @ 2:28 am

      David Roberts, I’m assuming the reason you would say that Romney is pro-abortion, even now it this current time as opposed to the past, is because he hold to a position of banning abortions with exceptions for certain circumstances.

      But as you accurately point out, Obama is more radical with regard to abortion. Obama will not even point out one single circumstance where abortion should be illegal.

      As someone who does not want to see a single unborn baby butchered and literally torn limb from limb as they are taken out of the womb, I am saddened by the situation we find ourselves in at the ballot box.

      But I believe the righteous course of action is to vote in a way that will save the most babies. I believe I have made a strong case in posts #’s 25, 35 and 37 that course of action is met by voting for Romney.

      I definitely agree with you on Israel. All indications are that if Netanyahu was free to speak openly about the U.S. election, that he would agree with you as well.

    43. Jonathan
      October 13th, 2012 @ 2:37 am

      Dave (the previous Dave, not the one I just posted to),

      I agree that our hope is not in politics. I also agree that we need to be working to get people’s hearts right in this nation. What we truly need is revival.

      But I don’t look at it as an either/or proposal. I believe we can seek spiritual revival while at the same time, seeking to elect the best people we can to preserve our nation from falling off a cliff before the spiritual revival happens.

      I know our hope is not in the White House. But until such time as there is a great awakening (and we need to passionately work for that as well) I believe we must do the best we can to elect the best leaders we can actually get into positions of power while the nation is still in its unregenerate state.

      My goal, for instance, is to save the most babies I can while this nation is still apathetic and has not been in revival, still hoping and working for revival at the same time.

      Does that make sense?

    44. Ray
      October 13th, 2012 @ 10:26 am

      I just noticed I Cor 10:1 which says that both the Gentiles who believe and the Jews of the Old Testament have the same fathers.

      Doesn’t that makes us of the same family of God?

      I feel closely related to the apostle Paul who was of the Jews. We are related by the same blood.
      Eph 1:7.

      In the body of Christ a man who drives a low rider should get along with one who drives a 4 wheel drive.

      So I should care about what goes on in Jerusalem, but not just Jerusalem, though Jerusalem might be a political or cultural hot spot at times.

    45. Jonathan
      October 13th, 2012 @ 11:25 am

      I agree to a point Ray, but be careful not to fall into replacement theology. God has a distinct plan for the Jewish people and the land of Israel. The church has not replaced that at all.

    46. Dave
      October 13th, 2012 @ 2:28 pm

      Yes, Jonathan, it does make sense. While I still tend to lean away from politics, mainly because it’s end result is always division of some kind it seems, I appreciate what you are saying and DO believe God has called many into this arena of life.

      It’s not hard to get real black and white on this issue, especially because of the reality that our voting IS what elects a president. I’ve just seen this cycle repeat itself over and over and over again every 4 years. Yet regardless of the man in office the country, as a whole, continues farther down the same troubling path.

      Not only that but it brings up many other issues. Such as the birth control pill. Did you know it works in three different ways, or stages? If the first preventative measures don’t work the third actually destroys the fetus(?) after conception. The “morning after pill” is simply a potent birth control pill that ensures the 3rd phase of “prevention” is accomplished. It has the same exact chemicals used in the regular birth control pill.

    47. Dave
      October 13th, 2012 @ 2:31 pm

      This is why I always come back to the same understanding. Our problems as a nation are beyond human remedy. Either God shows up or we are in serious trouble.

    48. Anthea
      October 13th, 2012 @ 4:21 pm

      Not all birth control pills work in the same way. The UK Christian Medical Fellowship has a website full of info on the how to avoid abortifacient methods of family planning, and their advice is up to date. Cerazette is a newish minipill, and it does not work like the ones you mention. However, the new coil with hormones does cause abortions.

      Just adding my two pennyworth to avoid making Christians look silly.

    49. Jonathan
      October 13th, 2012 @ 4:43 pm

      Point taken, Anthea. But the point is that most Americans don’t even realize that birth control pills can and do cause abortions.

      I agree with Dave that politics can be polarizing. But let’s not forget that Christ said that He came to divide. When we stand for what is right, whether that be in the realm of politics or the realm of the church, it will cause division. But I understand your point.

      I also agree with you Dave that our problems as a nation will not be solved by any human, whether it be a politician or political party or anything else. But when I vote, I am not looking for an earthly savior. I am looking, not to save the country by my vote, but to slow it’s descent into the abyss. Reasons such as trying to save the most unborn children that I can by my vote are why I do it. I have no pretension that I will save them all through a political leader. Because I know that our hope in actually changing hearts is found in Christ and Christ alone. But as the church pursues revival, I feel we must seek to do our best to slow the country’s free-fall in the meantime. That means electing the best imperfect leaders we can get into office in the meantime.

    50. Dave
      October 14th, 2012 @ 12:18 am

      Thanks for clarifying, Anthea. My post was mostly to just make a general point about politics, not criminalize birth control:) But either way it’s good to hear there are alternatives.

    51. Dave
      October 14th, 2012 @ 12:26 am

      I would sure like to hear more things like you wrote, Jonathan. I think your approach is good and well laid out. Unfortunately we don’t hear much of that in today’s christian circles.

      I’m not sure if I agree with your application of Christ coming to divide but I’m not sure I disagree either:)

    52. Larry Wolfe
      October 14th, 2012 @ 2:44 pm

      Wauthena,
      Did you attempt to contact pastor Bob Enyart to validate your claims before you lash out at him? I read above where pastor Enyart has responded to you in a gracious way. I know Bob personally and can attest that he holds a Jesus like love and concern for those caught up in homosexuality. I’d suggest you call Bob and talk through your concerns. Knowing Bob I suspect he would even offer you time on his BEL radio show for this discussion. If you find your words above to be inaccurate and a slandering of a Christian brother, an apology here would go far to make amends.

    53. Irie
      October 14th, 2012 @ 11:56 pm

      Excellent interview with Pastor Bob Enyart Dr.Brown! I have followed Bob Enyart’s past teachings via LeSEA televion broadcasts and more recently at Kgov.com on the internet thru his podcast – priceless knowledge. I first began my observations with the intended purpose of dissecting and criticizing Pastor Enyart’s theological teachings, only to grudgingly acknowledge I was overwhelmingly wrong- to my chagrin.Few men have influenced my life in the manner Bob Enyart has and I thank God for this wise servant I have never had the privilege to meet.

    54. Jonathan
      October 15th, 2012 @ 4:25 am

      Brian,

      Did you drop out of the discussion again?

    55. Larry E.
      October 15th, 2012 @ 7:43 am

      My question is tangential to the topic of this thread. Has anyone researched the views of Tom Hoefling or Virgil Goode as third-party candidate alternatives to Obama/Romney? If this is too off-topic, perhaps Dr. Brown would consider a show dedicated to exploring third-party candidates?

      Blessings to alL!

    56. Darrell B
      October 15th, 2012 @ 12:46 pm

      The notion that presidential candidates govern by their parties platform is a fairy tale and someone would have to ignore history to believe it.

      Bob Dole promised not to follow the platform and Bush, McCain and Romney do not agree with the Republican platform. Why would anyone believe that somehow Romney would feel obligated to follow the platform.

      Soon after GW Bush was elected, he gave us a huge liberal socialist program… the medicare drug program. This was not only not in the platform, it goes against all conservative principles expressed in the party platform.
      The Republican party platform is a mostly document that is useless… except to mislead conservative Christians into the falsely believe they share our values. In that way, it it very effective.

      We must face the fact that the Republican Party has left us and we now are the RINOs.

    57. Darrell B
      October 15th, 2012 @ 12:48 pm

      Here is an interview with Tom Hoefling.
      http://kgov.com/tom-hoefling-for-president-2012

    58. Jonathan
      October 15th, 2012 @ 1:44 pm

      Larry, I agree with a lot of the positions of Hoefling and Goode. I believe they hold a lot of Biblical positions. However, it is my personal belief that anyone who is truly pro-life cannot afford to vote for anyone other than Romney because any other vote will not help to get the most pro-abortion president in our nation’s history out of the White House for a second term. The next term will almost certainly see one Supreme Court appointment and likely will have multiple appointments to the Supreme Court. We can see the pro-abortion, ultra left-wing Supreme Court justices Obama picked in his first term. These Supreme Court justices have LIFETIME appointments. We cannot afford the effect that Obama would have on our courts in a second term. Please think about that. Here are a couple links I would urge you to read:

      http://www.lifenews.com/2012/10/15/the-obama-abortion-agenda-reviewing-the-last-four-years/

      http://bibchr.blogspot.com/2012/10/this-elections-choice-romney-third.html

    59. Jonathan
      October 15th, 2012 @ 1:53 pm

      One other thing to note about Hoefling and Goode is that both of them are not official candidates in many states. Because of that, it will be virtually impossible for either one of them to get elected.

      So let’s examine who would vote for them. If they have a lot of Biblical viewpoints, would people who would otherwise vote for Obama vote for them? The answer is an almost certain “no”. So the reality is that anyone who votes for Hoefling or Goode will not get either one elected. The only thing accomplished in voting for either of these two men is siphoning off a vote that would otherwise have helped to make sure that Obama was not re-elected. After reading the first link in my last post, can we agree that is a good reason NOT to vote for either of these two men?

    60. Bob Enyart
      October 15th, 2012 @ 6:37 pm

      - Irie, it is humbling to read your words.
      - Kevin Evans, agreed, it’s unthinkable to support a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
      - Larry Wolfe (different wolf of course :) , thank you Larry for your encouragement!

      It’s great that Dr. Brown has such active listeners and that his shows generate such lively threads! This is cool!

    61. Mark Phillips
      October 16th, 2012 @ 1:58 am

      Bob,
      just to say,do listen online or download this talk on MP3 (you may already know much of what is said,but many of those who listen to you may not) ; and encourage your local and online listeners to do likewise :

      http://davidpawson.org/resources/resource/879?return_url=http%3A%2F%2Fdavidpawson.org%2Fresources%2Fseries%2Fcults-sects

    62. Ruth
      October 16th, 2012 @ 4:17 am

      I want to “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s”….but in rendering unto God what is God’s (my soul), I just can’t bring myself to endorse Romney. I am definitely not going to vote for Obama — did that once, I did! I’ve been twisting in the wind with guilt ever since. In my defense, I really believed he was going to do something about “green jobs”. He had other priorities, obviously! I think that’s what happens when we concentrate on a single issue — and believe the campaign rhetoric! We get a lot of things we didn’t bargain for — and a fistful of empty promises.

      Both candidates are pro-choice, and Mitt has flipped like a pancake so many times, he is just showing us that we can expect more of the same if it makes it in.

      Israel is a very important issue, and one that is close to my heart — but if we’ve learned anything from the OT, isn’t it that God will make happen whatever He will make happen with Israel? He is not circumscribed by our actions.

      I really wish I could comfortably vote for Romney because I really think Obama is taking us on a very dangerous course. But unfortunately, I just don’t feel that “trust” of him…I’m listening to that nagging sense and staying home this year. If he wins, though, I’ll be hoping to be wrong.

      That’s my dilemma.

    63. Larry E.
      October 16th, 2012 @ 9:56 am

      Jonathan –

      Thank you for the links. I’m not quite ready to go all in on the “lesser of two evils” strategy. I feel constrained to vote for the candidate/party that most accurately reflects my Christian beliefs – even if that means voting for someone that cannot win.

      I suppose I believe that even if many Christians vote for a candidate that cannot win, God will STILL move on our behalf as a nation – even if our official candidate did not win. The Bible is filled with stories of men who did the impossible because they were relentless in their refusal to compromise to the godless world around them.

      Blessings to all and thank you for the discussion,

      Larry

    64. Jonathan
      October 16th, 2012 @ 10:01 am

      Ruth, I strongly believe that we have to do what we can to get the most pro-abortion President out of the White House. But I am glad that you have at least decided not to vote for Obama.

      The reality is that on Inauguration Day, we WILL have either Mitt Romney or Barack Obama as our President. It will not be Ron Paul or Gary Johnson or Virgil Goode or any other person. Most third-party candidates are not even on the ballot in most states. The reality is that the next President will be one of two people.

      So either in voting for a third-party candidate or in voting for no-one, we will not help the unborn children being murdered daily in our nation.

      I did not vote for Romney in the primary. He was my second-least favorite candidate out of the Republicans running. But he is the only one left other than Obama that can be the next president.

      I believe Romney is not necessarily pro-life and not necessarily pro-abortion. I believe he is pro opportunism. I believe he will follow the most politically expedient route on his positions. I believe that is the record and that is the quotes from him that we see. Yet that is still better for the pro-life cause than a radically pro-abortion President who makes it one of his top priorities to promote abortion.

      If Romney is elected, he will only have been elected by receiving a lot of votes from those who are pro-life. He has made specific promises to those pro-lifers. He has stated that he wants to see Roe V Wade overturned. He has picked a pro-life VP (as he promised to do beforehand). He has promised to put the Mexico City policy back in place that Obama rescinded that bans taxpayer money from going to other countries to fund abortion. He has promised to overturn Obamacare which allows for the funding of abortion. He has committed to advocate for and support a Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act to protect unborn children who are capable of feeling pain from abortion. You can see his promises at this link:
      http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/269984/my-pro-life-pledge-mitt-romney

      So if Romney is an opportunist, he will not go against his specific promises or he will not be re-elected. That is why Romney will follow through on his pro-life promises. Don’t you agree?

    65. Jonathan
      October 16th, 2012 @ 10:15 am

      Larry,

      I believe it is precisely BECAUSE of the spiritual state of our nation that we find ourselves in the situation we are in this election.

      We will NOT have a Godly leader in the White House because the spiritual state of our nation is NOT turned toward God. I believe that is why Romney got the nomination instead of some of the better candidates running for the Republican party. As I said above, Romney was my second-least favorite candidate of those running for the Republicans.

      I don’t believe Romney is a Godly leader. I don’t believe he is committed to Godly values. But I do believe he can be pressured into doing the right thing by those who vote him into office because he wants to be re-elected. He knows that the Democrats will get most of the radically pro-abortion people voting for them. The only way that he can be re-elected is to get the pro-life people to vote for him again in the next election.

      Romney has made specific promises as I have shown in my last comment. I believe those who are concerned with trying to save every unborn life that we can from being butchered will 1. Vote for Romney and 2. Hold him accountable and put pressure on him CONSTANTLY to follow though on his promises to limit abortion.

      What good do you believe voting for a third party will do? Do you agree with me that God WILL NOT do the impossible when the spiritual state of our nation is the way that it is? Can you show me examples of when God did work impossible miracles on a national level when hearts had not first been changed?

    66. Ruth
      October 16th, 2012 @ 12:19 pm

      Jonathan, I’ve yet to see a President make good on his campaign promises! Mitt will be persuaded by the pro-choicers just as much (if not more so) as by the pro-lifers! The way our American elections have gone, once a candidate is “in” they do what they had the political savvy to avoid admitting to when still running. If Obama had just stated what his priorities were, many of us would not have been shocked by him and we certainly would not have voted for him. I’m beginning to see that this is just the way of politicians….say what will get you elected and then pursue what’s REALLY on your mind….and why humanity can never be happy with anything less than our rightful Messianic king. Am I wrong to just not want that horrible feeling of, “…and to think I voted for him!”?

      If you vote for Romney, Jonathan, and he is no more anti-abortion IN DEED (not in word!) than a Democrat, won’t you feel sick about it?

      I guess I just don’t believe in politicians anymore…I really wish I had faith in them.

    67. Jonathan
      October 16th, 2012 @ 12:54 pm

      Ruth, do you agree with me that most pro-abortion voters vote for Democrats? Do you agree that most pro-abortion voters do not vote for Republicans? Why would a Republican candidate be more influenced by people who would not vote to re-elect him? I don’t understand. Obama supported a “woman’s right to choose” in his campaign 4 yrs ago. He was very much up-front about that. That is why he was endorsed by all of the pro-abortion groups and opposed by the pro-life groups. He has fulfilled what he said. Why would we believe that Romney would risk loosing the support of pro-lifers and go back on his specific promises that he made?

      There is no doubt in my mind that Obama is much more likely to further the pro-abortion agenda than Romney? Don’t you agree?

    68. Ruth
      October 16th, 2012 @ 1:40 pm

      Yes, Jonathan, I do agree that Obama is the more dangerous candidate on several levels.

      But for me, it’s not about choosing between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney because I will definitely not vote Obama again! (By way of background I used to be an active Green, simply because I hate the destruction of our planet, and so, apparently does the Lord (see Revelation 11:18), but I can’t focus on just the issue of planetary health, obviously, because the Green platform also contains some socially immoral (by Biblical standards) planks. And that is what changed my party afiliation, btw: really reading the OT and NT and getting saved by the Lord Jesus Christ [Messiah Yeshua] and then feeling the need to vote as close to my new moral perspective as possible. Nonetheless, I consider myself an Independent today.) What I’m truly torn over is a choice between Romney or not voting AT ALL. But that puts me between the horns of yet another dilemma: the possibility of not being able to vote AGAINST anyone. I don’t want President Obama’s policies to continue, that’s for certain! I’m just terrified of having that gut-wrenching sense of regret again…

      IF I vote Romney, Jonathan, and he doesn’t live up to his promises, I’ll come back to this thread and remind you: “See, I told you so!” If he somehow wins and does live up to them, I’ll gratefully acknowledge your influence!

      :D

    69. Jonathan
      October 16th, 2012 @ 3:46 pm

      Ruth,

      I love your post! It tells me a lot about you and what has led you to this point. I am so happy to hear your testimony.

      I am not trying to get you to go against your conscience. If you genuinely feel you cannot vote for Romney because of his past, I respect that. I may feel that is not the correct decision and try to convince you of my perspective. But I don’t believe it is necessarily a sin NOT to vote for Romney. I do believe it would be a sin, clearly knowing Obama’s last 4 yrs as President, to vote for him in this election. It seems we agree on that and I am glad you are not voting for him.

      I don’t condemn you for your past vote, BTW. We all make mistakes and as long as you repent and move forward, don’t torture yourself with guilt. Remember that it is Satan that plagues us with guilt after we have repented. It is not God.

      The reason I have for hope that Romney will fulfill his pro-life promises is because I believe the pro-life voters can successfully put pressure on Romney to do so.

      When Romney was in elections for Governor of Massachusetts, he had to get pro-abortion votes in order to be elected. Look at the political makeup of Massachusetts. It is a Democrat state with Democrat legislators. He felt that he had to get pro-abortion Democrats to vote for him in order to win. Now if he was truly pro-life, that wouldn’t have mattered. He would have followed his conscience anyway. But as I already said, I believe Romney is an opportunist. He took a pro-abortion position to get elected in a pro-abortion state.

      Contrast that with what he will have to do to be elected a Republican President. He will HAVE to get pro-life voters to vote for him. He will HAVE to get them to vote for him again in another 4 yrs to get re-elected. He HAS to try to fulfill his promises if he wants to be re-elected because pro-abortion voters aren’t going to vote for him. He HAS to get the pro-life voters to vote for him in order for him to win. That is why, even though I view him as an opportunist instead of solidly pro-life, I believe he will work to fulfill those pro-life promises that he made.

      I hope you agree and vote for him. I agree to take the blame if I’m wrong. But let’s just say I am wrong (which because of what I said above, I don’t believe for a minute that I am) we both agree that Obama will be worse on the issue of abortion than Romney would be.

      Continue to think and pray about your decision. I am sure the Lord will give you wisdom. It sounds like you are already giving it a lot of thought and I do respect that.

    70. Jonathan
      October 16th, 2012 @ 3:49 pm

      Note: In the sentence above where I said: “When Romney was in elections for Governor of Massachusetts, he had to get pro-abortion votes in order to be elected.” I meant to say that Romney FELT LIKE he had to get pro-abortion votes in order to be elected. I don’t necessarily believe that. But I think Romney did.

    71. Ruth
      October 16th, 2012 @ 8:07 pm

      Thanks, Jonathan, I very much appreciate your insights and compassion….I really do hope you are correct in assessing a future Romney re-election strategy, were he to be our next President…I will definitely be seeking the Lord’s leading on this important decision…..

    72. Shamarra
      October 17th, 2012 @ 12:34 pm

      Thank you Dr. Brown and your guest for such a great show! The solutions for our country do not rest in man, but in GOD and it is up to us believers to utilize the spiritual gifts HE has bestowed upon us, especially PRAYER.

      Just like in our lives, it is sometimes hard to truly rest in HIM to work out things for the greater good. This would be on a micro level. When it comes to the election, this is a macro level event that we need to STILL rest in HIM! HE is a GOD over both small and large things and we need to exercise this active faith in this time. Let’s not minimize HIS Power! We will pray for GOD to allow the candidate that He wants to become President, as HE uses all for his greater work and plans.

      Why not write in JESUS as President and continue to watch, wait and work until he returns? Our business is to be kingdom business, not being caught up in the distractions of this world. Are not our homes, jobs, money, and other material things distractions, while necessary? Yes, but we attain these things from GOD, not by our own work.

      These are some interesting and important times we are living in brothers and sisters and the Body needs to be awakened.

      Keep up the great work Dr. Brown

      “But seek ye first the kingdom of GOD and HIS righteousness and all things shall be added unto you” -Matthew 6:33 and Luke 14:33

      Peace and Blessings!

    73. Jonathan
      October 18th, 2012 @ 11:16 am

      Brian, I don’t know if you are still reading the posts in this discussion or if you were still looking for the answers to the questions you asked me in posts # 18 and 31. But if you are still interested in knowing why I believe requiring voter ID is not racism, the following link to an article might be helpful. (I’m actually talking more about the graphic above the article than the article itself.) It also seems the following note is required.

      Note: I don’t EXPECT you to go to the link. I am providing you the option. You are free to either go to it or not go to it as you wish.

      http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/17/71-percent-voters-favor-voter-ID

    74. Jack
      October 23rd, 2012 @ 12:16 am

      I agree completely with the pastor Eynart’s arguments against voting for Romney. I believe Romney would be spiritually disastrous for America. Romney’s socialized healthcare in Massachusetts the template for Obamacare, which funds abortions. Romney has claimed to be more liberal than Ted Kennedy on gay-marriage rights. The list is Gov. Romney’s liberal political views are quite extensive. He may claim to have “evolved” in his political opinions, but that is nothing more than political expediency.

      I do pray that the Lord’s Providence protects us, as we survive the storm.

    75. Laura Streno
      November 6th, 2012 @ 3:37 pm

      For the first time I have really struggled with my vote. I cannot bring myself to vote for either canidate. I voted 3rd party. I have done indepth study on Mormonism. It is AS dangerous as Muslim. They are both anti-christ. Even if Romney is prolife… I will tell you why… because Mormons believe that our souls are ‘floating around in space’ waiting to be born. All babies are ‘future housing’ for our souls. To kill a baby is to destroy future ‘housing’ for a future ‘God.’ For all Mormons are working toward ‘Godhood.’ Mormons ‘appear’ to have ‘good morals’ and ‘christianlike values’ …. but they are rooted in nothing but the good side of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Romney is as dangerous as Obama.

    76. Bob Enyart
      November 7th, 2012 @ 1:31 am

      Hi guys! This is from http://americanrtl.org/election-results-2012

      Republican Party: We Don’t Need the Social Issues

      DENVER, Nov. 6, 2012 — Republican “moderates” like Bob Dole, John McCain, and Mitt Romney lose elections, while candidates that have appealed to the party’s pro-life core, like Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, win by energizing the base.

      So, disdaining their pro-family base, the Republican Party has bragged that it is moving away from what they call the “social” issues, the sanctity of life and of marriage. Of course however, the very foundation of human civilization is the non-negotiable God-given right to life and the sanctity of marriage.

      Anti-biblical values Republican leaders are surrendering in election after election to big-spending socialist Democrats because they actually prefer that outcome over nominating candidates who will invigorate the base by fighting for the life of the unborn child and for the sanctity of marriage. And predictably, such RINO Republicans will argue the exact opposite, that if it wants to win, the Republican Party needs to become increasingly liberal, that is, pro-homosexuality, pro-abortion, anti-marriage, etc. However, if the country is offered a candidate like Mitt Romney, who is a government health care reformist, pro-abortion, socialist, well then, why not just stick with the openly liberal party, because it’s hard to out-Democrat a Democrat.

      Please Give Now! Those who know that the battle is not R vs D, but good versus evil, and right vs wrong, and that the innocent child’s life must not be relegated to a second-tier negotiable issue, please donate to ARTL. For of course, even Ronald Reagan let down the pro-lifers who trusted in his leadership. And George W. Bush, while he would claim to oppose abortion, increased funding to Planned Parenthood by hundreds of millions of dollars more than even Bill Clinton was able to give them, and Bush ended up killing, by his own policies and approval, more than three million children during his term in office. So this is no longer your grandma’s pro-life movement. To get the support of the personhood movement, any alleged conservative candidate is going to have to be willing to sacrifice his own career in defense of the unborn child, or he’s as worthless as a soldier unwilling to face the battle.

    77. Dr Michael L Brown
      November 7th, 2012 @ 2:43 am

      Bob,

      Thanks for posting this article!

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